The Liberal Patriot Blog
 The Liberal Patriot Blog is dedicated to collecting and sharing information about National and State [New Hampshire] Political Action, News, and Events.

Tuesday, November 22, 2005

Hugo Chavez cares about Americans, at least more than US Oil companies do.

While most of Congress was spending an August recess tending to local constituents, Representative William D. Delahunt was in Caracas, sitting down to a four-hour, one-on-one dinner conversation with President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, one of the Bush administration's most ardent critics.

That meeting -- unusual for a sitting member of Congress and a head of state so critical of the White House -- sparked negotiations that led to the official announcement scheduled for today: A US subsidiary of a Venezuelan-owned company will provide 12 million gallons of discounted home heating oil to Massachusetts consumers and organizations serving the poor.

.....

Asked if he was subverting State Department policy toward Chávez, Delahunt said, ''I don't work for Condoleezza Rice. I don't report to the State Department. I report to the people who elected me in the state of Massachusetts. I belong to an independent branch of government."

Critics have described Chávez as a democratically elected leader who governs in an undemocratic manner. Elected in 1998, Chávez was removed in a violent coup in April 2002. That development was recognized by the US government. Chávez has accused the United States of aiding the coup, a charge that US officials deny.

Troops loyal to Chávez returned him to power later that month, and he survived a recall effort in 2004 in an election that was found to have been conducted fairly by the Organization of American States and by the Carter Center, the Atlanta nonprofit group founded by former President Jimmy Carter.

Human rights groups have accused Chávez of curtailing press freedoms and of stacking the country's judicial system with sympathetic judges.

Yet he has won plaudits within his country for his efforts to help the poor; an independent Chilean polling group recently reported that Chávez has a 65 percent approval rating among Venezuelans, 30 points higher than Bush's domestic approval rating, Chávez defenders say.

Bernardo Álvarez, Venezuela's ambassador to the United States, said in an interview that Chávez now wants to help low-income people in the United States.

''We want a united and prosperous America -- the whole Americas," Álvarez said. ''This is our way of showing our friendship and mutual cooperation between the US people and the Venezuelan people."

Chávez has been less cooperative and friendly toward Bush, calling him a ''crazy man" and an ''assassin." When Bush was in Latin America earlier this month, Chavez derided him at anti-Bush rally and declared ''dead" the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas, a Bush administration priority.

Venezuela is the United States's third-largest Latin American trading partner and its 13th largest worldwide. And CITGO, the Venezuelan subsidiary that will distribute the discount heating oil, has a historic place in Boston: Its giant sign in Kenmore Square has been a city landmark for four decades.

full article @ boston.com

Out of the 8 Oil companies that testified before congress and were asked to help with the heating fuel crisis. None have offered any aid. No single american oil company has offered ANYTHING after being asking in a congressional hearing to help out. NOTHING.

This administration has no leg to stand on when they criticize Chavez. Look who our president is. His record on civil rights records and free expression is shoddy at best. (and by shoddy I mean shitty.) And stacking the courts sounds familiar too.

You would probably curtail free expression and stack the courts too, if the CIA and the most wealth country in the world was actively trying to oust you via electoral or military methods.

The CIA has consistently over thrown democratically elected governments and installed horribly repressive dictatorships in latin America. You have to be educated in American schools be to stupid enough to believe that we are seen as a force for good in the world, even BEFORE Bush!


Comments:
Imagine this:

Imagine a software that would contain a database with Everyones names in the US, social security, if you are republican or democrat and who you voted for in the last elections.

Imagines that every major state institutions has this software and most companies do too.

Imagines that you would get fired because you voted against the current president and this software is being used to discriminate against your everywhere you go and anywhere you apply for a job or help.

Imagine that you are unable to get a passport b/c you voted against the regime and you are stuck now to do whatever they want b/c they claim they are the majority and your rights are being violated.

THis software exist in Venezuela. It has everyones address, personal info and political preference and is being used to discriminate people.

Now if you feel that b/c he is giving us cheap oil he is the SAVIOR of The WORLD.

You better start by renaming your blog. "The Authoritative Patriot Blog"

SHAME ON YOU.

I see many of you around here. You act like a defender of Liberty but you support Human RIght abuses anywhere else in the world.

---

One example. Mr. Carter thinks elections could never be fully automated and electronic in the US, but in Venezuela elections are all done on Lottery machines reprogrammed to track the votes,

So Mr. Carter even though he has said that US elections could never fully automated b/c of the security of the vote feels that the Venezuelan elections where impossible to have been tampered with even though they are fully electronic and none of the votes are ever counted that drop on the ballot box.

This is the kink of DOUBLE STANDARD many of you practice and preach.

Partisanship has got your blinded.
 
Wrong again AfueraChavez.

For the "liberal" Wall Street Journal: August 24, 2004

The Aug. 15 vote was the culmination of this process, and extra care was taken to ensure secrecy and accuracy. An electronic system was developed by a Venezuelan-American consortium led by SmartMatic that permitted touch-screen voting, with each choice backed up by a paper ballot. International machines were tested in advance, and we observed the entire voting process without limitation or restraint.

During the voting day, opposition leaders claimed to have exit-poll data showing the government losing by 20 percentage points, and this erroneous information was distributed widely. Results from each of the 20,000 machines were certified by poll workers and party observers and transmitted to central election headquarters in Caracas. As in all previous elections, paper ballots were retained under military guard. As predicted by most opinion polls and confirmed by our quick count, Mr. Chavez prevailed by a 59% to 41% margin.

Subsequently an audit was conducted to assure compatibility between manual ballots and electronically transmitted data, but opposition leaders insisted that their exit polls were accurate and that all other data were fraudulent. We met the following morning with Súmate, and they reported their own quick count showing a 10% government victory. Since their only remaining question was the accuracy of the audit, we developed the procedure for a second audit. Súmate and election commission members (government and opposition) agreed with our proposal. The second audit revealed no significant disparities.

[The article goes on and on to debunk the Bullshit rumors that you picked up from other wing nuts. Well, at least you got the name of the country right.]

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Venezuela-Voters-Carter24aug04.htm

As for your conspiracy theory on tracking software I guess we are just supposed to take your word for that. YAWN... I love how it takes about 3 secs to research and debunk these Right Wing Conspiracy Nuts....
 
the previous post is false. There´s no database in Venezuela containing the political preference of voters. It's a database of all the people that agreed to participate in the presidential recall, and they knew this info was not secret as regular elections are. Why isn't the recall data secret? Because in a recall your identity and signature must be validated. In regular elections the vote is secret, since in order to vote you must first be eligible and registered. So further validation of your identity is not needed after the vote is exercised, just before.
 
Here is the real data base and it is in the REAL ID Act pushed through Congress. Si Signor AfueraChavez, I do imagine your contentions every time I shop at Shaws, go to the bank, go to get my teeth cleaned and pay with a check, give bllod to the Red Cross, go to the friggin library to check out a book. I do imagine all of this because we live in just such a conceptual arrangement as you describe with all of the racism, discrimination, shitbagging etc... that you describe. It is called Republican controlled government. And yes, it is a Christian Evangelical Cleric led, Righty Oligarchical Tyranny of the worst down trodden stpped upon, Communistic kind. Read some Stalin-Lenin-Trotsky-Mao-Castro history comrade gringo.
 
Well, I will answer each of you.

First. I like how all of you assumed and concluded who I am without knowing it.

Jon Easton you say: I picked up hese rumors from RIGHT WIng Nuts.

I am a venezuelan Citizen for your information. All my family lives in Venezuela. And they are poor.

Smartmatic owned by your so called Venezuelan American Consortium is owned 70% by the Venezuelan Government and the American SIde is a young Venezuelan recent graduate computer engineer which first and only contract was the millions of the dollars contract from the Venezuelan regime.

--

The software exist. I have a COPY. Everyone is listed in it with ID number and Full Address, age and birthdays.

If you dont believe it you can download it from EMULE by searching CNE_lista_de_Tascon_Veneazuela.rar

I got a disc when I visited Venezuela within the last month.

The file has been uploaded to the share networks to give everyone access to the truth.

You should personally travel and stop think so close minded. May be visit Venezuela or speak to Venezuelan Citizens before making assumptions as to How I gather what I know and make my own conclusions.

My brother lost his job for having voted against Chavez. and many others have lost it too.

Dont believe what you read in your left wing nut papers.

Get some world experience before thinking you know it all.


And one thing, You didnt DEBUNK me.

You dont seem to know much of the situation and only provide biased information influenced by your partisanship.

---
TO Anonymous:

You contradict yourself. You say that no software exist but then go on to say that it's a database with the recall votes data. And it's ok to do that.

Private personal info is protected by the Venezuelan Constitution. THat's the reason the CNE doesnt want to Publish the voter registration list. Why did it provide the DATA to Create a politically discriminatory software.


--------

Do you want to see an Image Grab from your nonexisten Software.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/630/1439/1600/maisanta.0.jpg


Go Ahead and YAWN again buddy.

I speak with real data,
You speak under assumptions.

I am not sure where you do your research but it would help

" Si aprendes un poco Español"
Señor Easton."


Maybe you will get your chance to Debunk me sometime in the future.

--

To Mr. WJCowie

You make the same mistake a lot of people make.

You forgot what communisn and fascism really signifies. You have watched a bit much TV.\

Here is some help I recommend you to visit this link and read so you can learn what Trotsky is ta;ling about:

Title "Leon Trotsky's FASCISM
What It Is and How To Fight It"

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

If you claim to know much.

How come you failed to notice the similarities between the Chavez's regime and What happened in the communist countries.

You should be ashamed of yourself for comparing our current government in the US to the old communist tyrannies.

It really show's how much your reaaly know. Not much.


Liberals and even most of those who consider themselves Marxists are guilty of using the world fascist very loosely today. They fling it around as an epithet or political swearword against right-wing figures whom they particularly despise, or against reactionaries in general.

Since WWII, the fascist label has been applied to such figures and movements as Gerald L. K. Smith, Senator Joseph McCarthy, Senator Eastland, Barry Goldwater, the Minutemen, the John Birch Society, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George Wallace.

Now, were all these fascist, or just some? If only some, then how does one tell which are and which aren't?

Indiscriminate use of the term really reflects vagueness about its meaning. Asked to define fascism, the liberal replies in such terms as dictatorship, mass neurosis, anti-Semitism, the power of unscrupulous propaganda, the hypnotic effect of a mad-genius orator on the masses, etc. Impressionism and confusion on the part of liberals is not surprising. But Marxism's superiority consists of its ability to analyze and differentiate among social and political phenomena. that so many of those calling themselves marxists cannot define fascism any more adequately than the liberals is not wholly their fault. Whether they are aware of it or not, much of their intellectual heritage comes from the social-democratic (reformist socialist) and Stalinist movements, which dominated the left in the 1930s when fascism was scoring victory after victory. These movements not only permitted Nazism to come to power in Germany without a shot being fired against it, but they failed abysmally in understanding the nature and dynamics of fascism and the way to fight it. After fascism's triumphs, they had much to hide and so refrained from making a Marxist analysis which would, at least, have educated subsequent generations.
 
THe link of the image didnt fully print
Visit this

http://fpohl.blogspot.com/
 
Mr Easton,

I would love to hear your refutal on the image I provided you of the software available at

http://fpohl.blogspot.com/

Something besides you dont believe the graphic image is real.
 
Also,

Jon Easton

You never refuted anything I said.

THe two things I originally posted were:

1.- Existance of Software to Politically discriminate individuals

2.- Mr. Carter feels electrions in the US could never be electronic b/c of voting fraud but in Venezuela it's fully OK, - It's a DOUBLE STANDARD on his part.



Are you able to refute the two points I stated.


You cite an article which is not correct at all. and you call my software claim bogus without proof.

I was in Venezuela at the time of the referendum and the machines were NOT tested in advance, and the voting process had too many limitations and restraints taht the European Union decided not to monitore the vote.
 
One more thing:

You say I pcik up Bullshit from Other right wing nuts.

Then tell me mindfully.org is not biased and they are not radically nuts.

Just reading their about us makes your wonder.

Like I said My conclusions are from real facts and experience

Yours come from Mindfully.org and other bullshit online left wing nut sites.
 
"Like I said My conclusions are from real facts and experience

Yours come from Mindfully.org and other bullshit online left wing nut sites."

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I love rightards! Only you have the real truth. We're supposed to believe your anecdotal stories as gospel and we're supposed to embrace your truth, even as you rudely insult us. I don't like boors, especially supercilious ones.
 
Yeah, dipshit, Easton wasn't right about you... you can't possibly be a right wing nut... even though you mention "left wing nuts" and "lefists" like 9000 times...

Also they debunked you dipshit, Easton listed sources of international agencies that verified the election. Anonymous, my favorite blogger [he's everywhere], mentioned that the cataloguing of the votes was ONLY for the recall election and he said WHY they did that.

But we are supposed to TOTALLY ignore the Carter Center and the Wall Street Journal [A HARDCORE CONSERVATIVE PAPER!!!] are listen to you idiotic assface.

You are just probably part of one of those elitist money back families that Hugo pissed off when he decided to feed, clothes, and give health care to the poorest citizens.

You are a PARASITE ONE THE WORKER!!!
 
None of you have a logical refutal.

Your emotions over rule your logic.

I was not the first individual with the insult.

I cant understand why you all have to think that I am some kind of right Wing group member.

I am simple person that has left Venezuela b/c of political discrimination.

It's your choice to believe what your left wing groups are feeding your mind.

I would call you all weak minded if my comments would make all of you switch sides.

You can insult me all you all want but I least I am not speaking from something I read somewhere, I am speaking from experience.

You can call me rightard, you can say BWAHHH or call me a dishit.

BUT YOU DONT HAVE A LOGICAl REFUTAL. to disprove the software exist and that political discrimination is happening no matter what your article in your so admirer newspaper printed.


You can't even refute Mr. Carter's Double Standard.

I think both susanb and Joeshit D. Raggman have let their emotions lost track of logic.

DOnt insult me debate what I have stated in a simple way. Give me proof what I said is not happening.

The only thing you can say and do, is:

TO keep calling me all those names.
 
Hey Afuera, I never claimed to know shit from shinola. I don't have tv. I will compare this current US government to your communistas and as for the Birchers, much to the chagrine of my best buds on the left, I have bag loads of pals that claim to be Birchers. I don't repsect them for being racist, some of them anyway, but they are loaded with great info such as the crap you are spewing. A tyrannical regime, no matter what the strpe, is just that, tyrannical. Read the English definition to Communism, Fascism, Aristocracy, Oligarchy, Monarchy. You will see this top down, only for our own kind, Bushistes are indeed a combination of all aformentioned sellout, Empirical gumments.

And hey, Che, get a life. Good luck in this land of the big BX. I think Mr. Chavez has treated his American down trodden amigos pretty well compared to the asshole so many of same elected King here. Not that I'm going to vote Chavez for Prez here anytime soon.

Peace out!!!
 
YO Bitch

My emotions will stomp a mud hole in your ass!!

Pull your pencil dick out of your dog and read the comments!!!
 
Joeshit actually makes a better case than Frederick Pohl. It's a sad day for wingnuttery.

Frederick I made my case and directed you do a credit source of this information. I found it on the first google search i did. It took 3 secs.

Why don't you actually provide us with some information and sources instead of talking out your ass and spaming with tons of posts.
 
I think I stated my point.

Joeshit;

Your languague is so vulgar you might have to go back and take some more english classes in Uruguay.

AS for you WJCowie; Peace out too, I think you lost track somewhere back there.
 
Guess who owns the company receiving Oil from Chavez:

Citizens Energy Corporation is the non-profit company set up in 1980 by Joseph P. Kennedy II, son of the late Robert F. Kennedy.

First, this is not a novel idea. Citizens got going in 1980 as a result of Venezuela’s decision to grant a term crude contract to 26-year-old Joe Kennedy who was then trying to prove that oil majors were somehow delivering rather expensive heating oil to residents in the northeastern United States. The idea was deemed worthy, and given the go ahead by Humberto Calderon Berti, Venezuela’s Oil Minister at the time

-------


Citizens Energy owns no terminal, does not own a fleet of trucks and is not capable of qualifying low income families as eligible recipients of this “cheap oil”. The latter task is performed by Community Action Programs.

While trying to earn some political capital by “doing good” in their home turf cannot be considered a felony, doing so by becoming accessories to a self declared enemy of the U.S. falls well short of conscientious citizenship.

Joe Kennedy feels that he has covered his back against the above charge by haplessly stating the following ''You start parsing which countries' politics we're going to feel comfortable with, and only buying oil from them, then there are going to be a lot of people not driving their cars and not staying warm this winter…There are a lot of countries that have much worse records than Venezuela. At the end of the day it's not our business to go choosing other peoples' leaders, particularly when they are duly-elected democratic

Over the last few years it has been maddening to observe Representative Delahunt acting as Hugo Chávez main cheerleader/apologist in the U.S. Congress

I can see why you all like CHavez
 
Venezuela is not a self declared enemy of the USA. They are 4th largest oil exports to the US.

They are a critic of the Bush Administration as is nearly everyone on this blog and over 60% of americans.

What Haliburton and Cheney trading with Iran and OFFICIALLY declared enemys of the USA that are under sanctioned? What about the US normalizing trade relations with China, who have a horrendious human rights record? NO! Let's go after the communist guy who actually DARES to use some of the profits from oil sales to help his people.

When I feed the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist.
 
Venezuela has Declared the U.S their enemy.

Hugo Chavez has said it countless times in his weekend TV show that last up to 5 hours of him speaking.

If you can read some of this.
Is published by Chavez's top military brass.

http://militarvenezuela2005.blogspot.com/
 
Ooooh, read the comments. Gotcha!!!
 
Fred, you really are a card. I'm supposed to believe you're a poor man from Venezuala, with a poor family - just because you say so?

For all I know, dude, you're sitting naked in your mom's basement, getting ready to go to a Star Trek convention.

When you offer up some kind of proof of anything, I may give you the honor of a reasonable response. Or not, as the case may be. If anyone is weak minded, it is the swallowers of US government propaganda. (like you, lambchop)
 
Freddy has lost his computer privileges for a week for looking at in appropriate pictures of men. He will not be posting any more messages here.
 
I just spoke with Leonard Nimoy and he said he doesn't know Fred. But there is a guy across the street at his neighbors moms house that lives in the basement. By the way, is that Fred on Joeshits wish list???
 
Hi,

I have the software FP has written about.

http://www.trialpres.com/lista.rar

It will be deleted within the next two days. Install it a check it for yourself lady.

It's a shame for you Susan and the responses you have given.

You seem to be a person that has many likes and dislikes. A bit discriminatory on your part and full of stereotypes.

Something I would not expect from a person that tries to be a liberal and defender of freedom.

You dont fool anyone.

I dont think FP needs a reasonable response from you, as you seem to not have any HONOR left.

You can provide us with more insults and a bit more of you NONSENSE.

I am sure we wont get the proper response after all of you analyze the software. I bet you wont even download it and check it.
 
What a BunCH of LOOSERs.

This is more like the comedy channel.

The most unprofessional BLog I have ever seen.

You all are CLOWNS.


Might need to apply to the COMEDY CHANNEL, and give them your skids.

That radio show you guys got, What a Joke too., I guess I am glad you all are from NH.
 
The liberal Patriot like I said:

It's more dictatorial than liberal.
 
Freddikins - if we were a dictorship, we'd kick your sorry ass off the blog....like your buds at freerepublic.com do. We actually do tolerate dissent - it's excellent comedy in your case.
 
We are SOOO dictatorial that we have not censored or deleted ANY of your posts... even though you are totally spamming... 3 and 4 posts in a row...

And also linking to software downloads that have god knows what kind of virus and spyware....

We are SO dictatorial because we are allowing your unfettered free speech? No we are dictatorial because we aren't agreeing with you.

sad.. but common.
 
You are an idiot.

THe file is 380mb what a large spyware.

Like I said none of you bother to get to the truth.

I made my point and will forward this to lots of other blogs where you are already the Biggest Laugh.

You all are more like the 3 Stooges.

I guess now you label me a spammer.

You are discriminatory, a full of stereotypes.
 
Apparently the best solution is to let the old/poor just freeze to death, rather than take discounted oil from the democratically elected leader of Venezuala.

Where is Exxon Mobil? They sure as hell aren't stepping up to the plate after record profits last quarter?

Freddy, you're getting repetitive and shrill. If you're going to hang around, please make an effort to be more interesting.
 
I'm all for a guy that givesoil to the poor and is the figure that promulgates all of this humor. I don't know if humor is allowed where you come from Fred-hole, but you are a friggin riot guy. Hey, next time you're in one of King George's strategy sessions, ask him about his free oil for the poor plan. Better yet, ask him about his ANYTHING for the poor plan.

Your wealth of ignorance astounds me but that has been said o the podcast. Rise up Fred.
 
Although I can't agree with many of the arguments made already, I have to throw my two cents in because of my recent education in Latin American Politics.

I can't say that I would support Chavez in any manner. An argument was made at some point in this debate that the military oversaw the election process. I find it hard to believe, after learning about the regimes in Latin America and how the political structure ties in very closely with the military, that there wasn't some sort of electoral fraud happening at some point along the way. I don't claim to have evidence of this, but there are a large number of certain historical examples of wide-spread electoral fraud with military oversight.

Regimes all across Latin America are repressive, corrupt, and unstable. Their talk is cheap and I wouldn't buy into it for one minute. They claim to have done great things for their countries, but at a what cost? After a fairly short education on Latin American politics, it isn't hard to question all political processes.

Again, I don't claim to have any facts either way. But I can't simply go along supporting what Chavez has done. Do I think it's a nice jesture? Of course. But it's politically motivated with self-interests at heart.

Granted GW hasn't even come close to helping with the oil crisis, but who expects him to? Chavez might gain some American political support because of this move, but I don't buy into it. We need a better solution that doesn't involve corrupt governments...and yes, I certainly include ours as one of those.

What we need are investments in long-term renewable energy alternatives that are safe for the environment. We wouldn't have to rely on the likes of Bush or Chavez if we could simply look to different sources for energy. I think, if this debate should go any further, it should be spirited...but in the direction of looking for a sensible alternative to oil, not accusing each other of little things that really doesn't solve anything. When you step back and look at all of these posts, really you're all fighting for the same thing. Think about it...
 
anonymous (and I have a hard time taking anyone who won't identify themselves seriously)

You're dancing around the issue. Chavez is actually doing something to help the people at risk this winter of freezing in the northern parts of the country. That's more than the US president and Congress are willing to do.

In fact, the House is voting to cut funding to school lunch programs, food stamps, low interest student loans, etc. At the same time Congress is going to vote to make $70 billion in tax cuts to the wealthiest minority of the population permanent.

You are right that regimes across Latin America are corrupt - and the USA has done a great deal to ensure that. (See School of the Americas) You admit that you have no proof that Chavez was elected fraudulently, yet you insist that there is some chicanery, because there always has been...and because of your much touted education in Latin American politics. (you did mention it 3 times in your post)

This dialogue is not about the need for renewable energy - it's about Chavez providing low cost oil to people in need, in the US.

We see that our own elected officials (elected fraudulently in some cases) don't give a rat's ass about helping those in need. I don't really care if Chavez is politically motivated - I do care that because of him there may be some people who don't freeze to death in the cold northeast.

I repeat my question - should we just let folks die, because your recent education tells you that all Latin American countries are led by evil dictators? And why aren't you criticizing your own "elected" officials for being so unwilling to help?
 
EVERYONE SHOULD JUST SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO SUSANB.

She is the know it all and her team of wealth of ignarance of WJCowie.

----

WHat she says it's the total and absolute truth and if you fail to agree with her you will be punish and removed from the Liberal republic.\\\\

Let's let her think she is the majority.

THe Queen SB has risen everyone to your knees.
 
That was a scathing and fact filled retort, anonymous. Powerful stuff, indeed - I know when I've been put in my place.
 
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